If you are passionate about AI programming, I recommend reading this topic.

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/63807-Artificial-Intelligence-in-Racing-Simulations-Project

For spatial awareness you won't get anything that way. The flaws of the AI remain the same, even are amplified by the increase in speed.

But with faster engines, the AI behavior changes a little. Bots are much more aggressive and attempt (and sometimes succeed ) more overtaking. Races against the AI are less boring. You are no longer alone on the track in the first laps.

It's not entirely satisfactory, I agree. It's just a way to continue playing solo without falling asleep.

Quote from subUwU :

So I prefer single player racing and I was wondering if AI can still be trained

I don't know how the latest version of the AI is coded. But it looks like the AI times are improving a bit race after race, to a certain extent.
If your problem is that the AI is too slow in your single player races, you can easily make it faster with the mod system.

Quote from johneysvk :

one reason i can think of is making 1000 sets that don't suck (:

(of course you don't have to make all of them from scratch)

It is certain that talking about 1000 setup makes the idea impossible to realize.
It would be enough to have some good modded cars with 3 general and adjustable configurations within coherent limits, and we could quickly see if the races with limited or fixed setups attract people.

Quote from Gutholz :

I think there is only one way to solve that:
An optional agreement for modders to waive the deletion-right.
Meaning a modder can (if he wants to) click a button that will:
1) make the mod undeleteable
2) gives right to LFS team to revert the mod to a previous version, in case of edits.

So modders have the option to give up some rights but on the other hand it makes their mods much more trusted, and thus maybe more popular.

I can not think of good reasons to delete mods, so in my opinion it would be a good trade-off. If a modder wants to keep his right to deletion that is okay too. Just means that people will know to be more careful about that mod, when making skins/setups/planning races.

It could be tied to the approved status.
The creators of already approved mods would need to asked.

Excellent idea ! A quality charter is the easiest way to avoid annoying anyone or creating endless and unnecessary copyright debates.

The modder is free to adhere or not to the charter. Event organizers can ask the modder to adhere the charter if they are interested in any of its mods.

The quality charter would stipulate that the mod cannot be erased or screwed up by the modder, and the basic qualities essential for a good fully functional mod (no bugs, lods that work properly, correct mapping with at least one base texture etc.).

We would thus have on the one hand clean, labeled and secure mods, and on the other hand the all comers, current.

Modders would not waive any rights by adhering to a quality charter. They would just give better visibility to their mods and reassure their users.

Extraordinary, fantastic car. Superb achievement. Without a doubt, one of the most charismatic currently available on LFS.

A car model that perfectly exploits current physics. The feeling is phenomenal. We feel the work of the tires to the millimetre. The power is enormous. No GTR can resist it. It really feels like driving something alive and dangerous. I adore. Thank you so much. This is the car I was waiting for.

Jake, you are a magician capable of reviving other legendary models like a 935, or, let's be crazy, all the DRMs from 1977.

The model is superb and perfectly modeled. It's just a shame that the LODs don't work properly. It doesn't make you want to do group races and do skins. But the driving is so great, that for once, I almost don't mind.

Quote from timdecnodder :

As long as the mods get created by people not affiliated with LFS (under contract), the legal rights always stay with the creator.

And should this change in any way/shape or form i will delete all my mods before that update, as i will not let my work and passion projects get taken by the LFS team or it’s moderators/admins.

I already went the extra mile to try and get licenses for all 3 of my RX mods. Got 1 in the end and it’s still the only officially licensed mod 1,5 years after modding got released.

So thank you but no thank you for trying to steal the work community’s members should they decide to close this chapter of their life and not have to worry about making sure their mods still alright with subsequent updates in the future.

It would be unfortunate if modders of your quality stop publishing or withdraw their creations.

You are right to point out the rights of creators. It is essential that the rights of all creators be respected, and in a balanced way.

This is why your rights as modders cannot (and should not) be superior to the rights of the creators of LFS, who are also the creators of the tools that allow you to develop your mods for LFS.

Let's imagine an extreme example: the case of a person with bad intentions but competent and endowed with a strategic vision (which fortunately is rarely the case with bad people ).

Currently (with the current rules) this person could come up with great mods that all LFS players are used to playing with.
That person could then make those mods available in another game, or sell them to developers of an existing or future game, or develop another game themselves.
Then this malicious person could (this is his current right) delete them from LFS.

This person would thus have used LFS for his own promotion, and then taken some of the LFS players with him for the benefit of another game (if these players want to continue using his mods).

Without rubbing the knife in the wound, it wouldn't be the first time that the generosity of the devs would turn against them.

It is always complicated, but possible, to change or evolve the rules after the fact. And in the case of modding on LFS, this seems necessary. This does not mean that modders will necessarily be robbed or tricked. Or that the rules may force them to update their creations for life. There may be a fair middle ground for all.

Quote from johneysvk :

You're talking about pickup racing with fixed setups.

Don't feel obligated, but what do you mean?

(I have a poor command of English, but I don't think I mentioned something like that )

You know, the devs were already talking about cars with fixed or limited setups a good dozen years ago. I wouldn't be surprised if that happens with the next update. There's a lot of bustle here, but most of the time we're watching a train go by with long-scheduled stops.

What is strange and funny too is that this idea of fixed or limited setups seems to appeal much less to part of the community.
The best (I think) is to initially let the modders limit themselves the possibilities of setups for their vehicles. Which is already possible, in part at least.

Quote from tangovalens :

I mean I'm not interested in casual racing

Last precision, having a new class of cars with fixed or limited setups, would not prohibit organizing events scheduled with these cars. There is no incompatibility. You are in a better position than me to know and/or verify that racers would be interested in this.

I understand and sympathize with your disappointment.

Quote from Tomfuel :

(there is no limitations to annoying someone):

You said it. And that will never change (as long as some keep a tiny share of power over others, so...).

The feature you've been waiting for could be very simple and ultimately de-stress everyone. A sort of airlock.

The modder must be able to keep full ownership of his creations (I believe) without causing harm to others. This is possible if there is a version available online and usable by all and a wip version in test.

The modder can edit and/or delete wip development builds as they see fit. On the other hand, he must make the request before being able to modify/delete the last public version. At the time of this request, just check/ask if an event is organized with the mod. I don't see who that would bother. Except that it still takes more work.

Quote from johneysvk :

TL;DR the LFS userbase is small and there's basically no pick up racing.
While this is true, i think you're maybe overestimating the impact of the fixed setup thing here.

If that happened now, i don't see attendance numbers magically skyrocketing or new players coming in, more is needed for that such as the elusive update and new content. Tracks especially. And even then the ship may have sailed.

All of the other stuff you wrote is pretty much irrelevant to scheduled events.
You're talking about pickup racing with fixed setups.

I didn't say it was magic .
Of course, the next updates will be decisive. I'm just saying that it lacks an intermediate class between demo and professional races. This new class could allow for a smoother transition between the two. This is where the fixed configuration could help.

For the rest, I'm sorry, but my post has on the contrary everything to do with the scheduled events in the sense that these events are scheduled by communities that address their members. The LFS community being small, communities have difficulty filling in the grids. It's logic.
The idea is to have events that reach people outside of the established LFS audience.

I understand now.
We got off to a bad start. My messages are too long, you don't read them and you think it's not about LFS. I assure you it is quite the opposite. The long post on this page (for example) was a reply to the post jjust above. I did not quote it. It's a mistake. Sorry. It would have helped you understand what I said.
Good race to you

Off topic end

Quote from Viperakecske :

"You're always on deck keeping watch" That is very wrong first of all but its ok

Id love to be a moderator and delete posts and especially mods,also wouldnt mind deleting you

What you doing here is spamming and talking about god or i dont even know,troll account eh

Thank you for your frankness .
Could you tell us in two words your definitions of Spam and Troll?
It would help me a lot to understand what you are saying.

Quote from Viperakecske :

Men instead of spamming this forum whit theories go write a book,or like Scawen once said go outside

Off topic {
It is not uncommon for great human adventures to generate stories. It is even a literary genre known since antiquity. After all, nothing forces you to read them.

I have a question, and please don't see any sarcasm on my part. You're always on deck keeping watch. Why not become a moderator ? You could delete the posts that bother you, ban people who are not race online enough, even delete their profiles.
Intolerance is less frustrating with power.

The other solution is to say what bothers you with what I said?

Nothing forces you to. I have the weakness to believe that a forum is a space of freedom (as long as we respect others, that goes without saying) }

I know that many things are already possible. But setup control is the keystone of the system I'm thinking of. Without a fixed or limited setup, it won't work (not massively enough).

I would like to remove a possible ambiguity. I'm not saying that having scheduled events is wrong. I hope you don't understand it that way . I say that this offer can only, by nature, interest a small portion of potential players.

What you are doing is very good. Your results are good too, as far as is possible in this way.

The problem with doing things before thinking about them (I'm teasing you ) is that you deal with what is possible to do. You only reproduce the same principle, with the same constraints, for more or less results.

The third category I am talking about would allow us to rediscover the magical simplicity of the origins. Which worked wonderfully well before. In three clicks we chose a car in the garage to race with anyone, at the time that suited us. The only possible disappointment was to arrive on a rallycross track .

With scheduled events, you have to fill in a profile (here or elsewhere), find out about the news, select an event, prepare for it, hoping not to have fallen asleep on the wheel before race time.

The immediate pleasure of playing has turned into a constraint over time. On the path between the pleasure and the constraint, you have already lost a lot of people.

Community operations (that's what it's all about) seem to me anachronistic and outdated, unable to satisfy the players of today and tomorrow (I could be wrong too).

The problem with a community is that it exhausted and it dies. There are always more people outside than inside. Above all, over time, the community develops its own culture with its codes, its initiation rites, its vernacular language, its ostracisms, its clans, its internal conflicts and its bitterness. Over time, a community ends up talking only to itself and isolating itself from the rest of the world.

This is what happened with LFS. In 20 years, we have gone from a brilliant game open to everyone to a tool developed specifically to satisfy a group of individuals. Seen from outside the community, no one understands anything anymore about it. As you rightly reminded us, we now have more choices than in 2004. There is therefore no need to make the effort to understand. This phenomenon is so significant that journalists no longer make the difference between the game and its community. Over time, communitarianism has done more harm to LFS than the latencies in its development.

LFS is today a piece of history out of contemporary time. And this fact has little to do with the extraordinary qualities of the game and the expected updates.

The LFS community is great, nothing to say about it. The problem is not there. My point is not a disguised criticism of the LFS community. The game must once again bring itself within the reach of the public. This is what needs to be changed.

A new category open with a real challenge, in which everyone has the same chances at the start, clearly defined and identifiable (not drowned in the middle of servers with offers that are unreadable by ordinary mortals), would make it possible to reconnect with a contemporary public who does not seek more necessarily to integrate a community to have the right to taste the pleasure of driving.

That's what it's all about: driving. No need to make a bunch of friends or be judged on your pedigree. We have real life for that and that's good enough .

However. It's always the same story. LFS is one of the few places in this world where God sees and hears you . If you are lucky, God answers you and/or performs a small miracle for you. The faithful have therefore gathered and they hold the place. They are the guardians of the temple and the guarantors of orthodoxy and its traditions. The faithful always begin by applauding miracles, then they await them with more or less impatience, finally they claim them. It is a very human reflex.

The doors of the chapel must however be opened from time to time to renew the oxygen. What I am talking about has no other purpose. I have nothing to gain personally. Other than being called an old troll (that's done) and wasting a bit of my time.

Last edited by Avraham Vandezwin, Sun 19 Feb 2023, 10:33. Reason : bad image of god

Very well done and beautiful skin. Very pleasant car to drive, the sound is very immersive too. Thank you so much.

Just a question. Is there a way to not have counter displays that follow the view? With the trackir, it's annoying .

Quote from tangovalens :

This is not something that you think, but something that you do.

If I could do it, it would already be done. But the new race format I'm thinking of unfortunately cannot be created or implemented by a player.

When the concept of scheduled events is not suitable (that's what I'm talking about ) the solution cannot be to organize others. It takes something different.

The closest solution would be to set up a specific server, with categories of cars with limited or fixed setups. But that is not yet possible. And it would not work. It would require a specific entry, having the choice between the demo servers, an intermediate class with specific cars and racing conditions, and then the open servers and the current organized events.

3 separate entrances, the intermediate class would serve as an airlock between the demo and the online competition.

I believe, like you, that the LFS is going in the right direction and I do not preach for my parish. I can do without playing online until the end of time (my simulator is not even connected to the internet).

I just think a lot of LFS players expect something like what I think (I'm not the only one thinking about that, that's for sure). And that this new entry could attract new racers .

Improving the visibility and communication of scheduled events is certainly a good thing, whatever the platform and the means used. Each community has its customs, its language, its preferences... LFS brings together people with very disparate profiles and aspirations. This is one of its strengths (and the creation of vehicles also pushes in this direction).

Be that as it may, the scheduled events will only ever interest a part of the licensees. I apologize for the triviality of this remark, but just as the lack of participants in organized events is one of the effects of lack of interest in the game in general, increasing the number of licensees seems to me to be the best way to increase "automatically" participation in organized events. And this is also where we can do something. Or at least discuss (possibly on a separate thread, if anyone is interested).

I can only speak from my little personal experience. But take the time to choose a particular event, register for it in advance, train a little to look good, make or download a specific setup, block a non-modifiable date in my calendar, etc. seems to me to be a somewhat disproportionate, and very time-consuming, for a few laps per week. The place of virtual races in my life has never been compatible with this kind of practice. It didn't stop me from buying an S3 in 2021 (before the announcement of the mod system) when I already had an S2 which I almost only used offline. However, not playing online is not one of the many commandments of my religion (especially since I am an atheist).

Online events are not accessible to me. But what other choices do I have here?
Go back to flattening cars on Blackwood with kids that aren't mine anymore?
Running alone on an empty server?
Randomly arrive somewhere and get run over by a bus or take 3 seconds per turn against an alien/setup magician?

What else does LFS offer me right now other than tweaking cars to have a more competitive AI offline?

No one can rewrite history, it is a fact. LFS has arguably lost its leadership position in competitive racing. It may change tomorrow. I hope so for you and for the future of the game. The fact is that currently, even people like me would go elsewhere if for a competitive experience. And maybe it's time to think about something else? To return to the magic of the origins.

To say 2 words about my online experience, in demo it was great. I only have great memories. Our only concern at the time was finding a server with enough room to accommodate all of us. We were several and wanted to play with others, but together. When there were too many of us, one of us would host. But all this in an improvised way, at the last minute. Then, we migrated to S2 and there… already, it wasn't the same. The atmosphere was colder and the discussions more serious. It felt like we were stepping into someone else's shoes and disturbing.

It's nobody's fault. It's just that something is missing between the demo and the licenses. I know that the idea is slowly making its way into many heads. So why not think together about a new "ready to drive" racing format, simple and accessible to everyone?

(If the opinion of someone who displays 0km on the odometer does not belong here, you can delete the post )

Fixed setups are a very good idea. Many people are waiting for it to come or come back online.

If the goal is to increase server traffic by attracting new pilots (it could be something else, like staying with friends on private servers), something simple and understandable by novices would be good, with a special filter in the server list, well reported and well documented. With name that defines this type of races. Maybe like:

https://www.iracing.com/series/rookie-legends-cup/

for example.

The question of the fixed setup arises today because the options of settings of LFS are too permissive for the cars of series. The dexterity of the elders in handling the setups discouraged those who did not have the time to devote themselves to it and/or to train enough. LFS has become professional and sharp (not a bad thing) but it has also produced a form of elitism (which unfortunately sometimes borders on sectarianism). A game that is too elitist ceases to be fun and popular and disappeared from the radar. [off topic: No need to look any further ]

The step is much too high between the demo and the licences. Many licencers prefer to have fun in demo. Races with fixed or limited setups could constitute a clearly identifiable intermediate category (and accessible only to licensees) between demo and professional racing, with dedicated categories from modding and Tweak Mods (easier than configuring all the combos). A place where everyone can connect, whatever their level and rediscover the magic and fun of the origins. To exaggerate a bit, any car with good tires is fun to drive and easy to handle in LFS.

The main pitfall of a fixed setup is to risk producing races that are too linear. Also keeping a strategic but "egalitarian" dimension can't hurt. Having multiple cars of the same category is one option (perhaps the easiest?). Having the choice between 2 or 3 setups for the same car is another, or even limiting the number and range of settings. But you have to keep a minimum of choice and flexibility for it to work "massively".

Quote from MousemanLV :

Bruh, your account has only been around since 2021. I dunno what you are smoking

Have you ever thought that a forum is consulted by a few more people than those who express themselves there?

Quote from MousemanLV :

You wouldn't be so optimistic and full of enthusiasm if you were around the time when Scirocco was announced. I just feel like you are constantly coming up with purely insignificant ideas and spamming this damn thread just because you want to be liked by certain people. You don't understand it.

I was there in the days of the Volkswagen Scirocco. So what ?
Be liked by who ?
What do you think you are here? Be serious.

We are only words and ideas. Nothing else. It's not a place to walk around with your ego and try to please.

Sorry, I don't have your extraordinary capacity for synthesis. I can't sum up the potential of LFS as succinctly as you do

Quote from Viperakecske :

Yes,make lfs great again whit updates

Are we talking about something else? Even talkers like me?

Quote from Viperakecske :

Someone rename this topic to Avraham Vandezwin thoughts

I post too much. It's possible .
Don't worry, I'll soon disappear for a while .
But do you have anything useful to say on this topic ?

Thank you for your answer. I didn't know it was impossible. This should be added to the list of mod system improvements. That would be helpful.

Quote from Aleksandr_124rus :

Hello

1 - Nice
2 - I'm wondering how best to do this? Unfortunately, 2 texture mappings cannot be applied to one triangle. And I can't add more triangles because I'm already at the 65.5k limit.
3 - Im sorry, but I don't think it makes sense for this to make a completely separate version of the same mod.

Thank you for feedback!

2- I can't help you, sorry .
3- Not a separate mod, just an alternate config accessible when creating a new setup. Like the XRR. If that's not possible, that's okay. This does not detract from the quality of the module. It's just an old man's whim .